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Questions grow over oil spike brokerage

FT.Com -- The boss of Steve Perkins, the broker at the heart of a rogue trading scandal that rocked oil markets this week, issued a bullish report suggesting prices could go higher only hours after Mr Perkins made the unauthorised trades that caused prices to spike.
The disclosure raises further questions about internal controls at PVM Oil Associates, the world’s largest oil brokerage. The London-based firm, which revealed on Thursday it had lost $10m (€7.1m, £6.1m) as a result of trades by Mr Perkins, one of its senior brokers, said the trading report was sent to clients at 08.44 in London on Tuesday, and it did not discover the rogue trading until 10.10 that morning.

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Submitted Jul 04, 2009 By: clement007

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Author	Topic: Questions grow over oil spike brokerage	Topic is locked Back to Topics

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OKRifle Champion Author Oklahoma City Posts:3,930 Points:671,945 Joined:Oct 2007	Message Posted: Jul 8, 2009 7:27:31 PM Ignore OKRifle Report Abuse I wish some fair and balanced news agency would investigate this and report it directly to the public, so we could get to the bottom of it and hammer Congress accordingly! I don't trust ANY investigation by THIS Administration!
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,853 Points:878,160 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Jul 8, 2009 12:13:04 PM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse A pox on their houses.
jjjleblanc Champion Author Rochester Posts:1,432 Points:464,755 Joined:Jun 2008	Message Posted: Jul 6, 2009 10:08:37 PM Ignore jjjleblanc Report Abuse Any chance of an answer starting to grow?
honda0105 Champion Author Tallahassee Posts:8,088 Points:452,280 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 6, 2009 9:55:53 PM Ignore honda0105 Report Abuse there go the calls for transparency.
ruc2827 Veteran Author Illinois Posts:308 Points:205,970 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 6, 2009 2:38:08 AM Ignore ruc2827 Report Abuse This guy is only getting news because the trades were unauthorized. What about the millions of authorized trades made every day that manipulate prices? http://www.stopoilspeculationnow.com.
Blue48 Champion Author Illinois Posts:1,864 Points:495,090 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 10:04:31 PM Ignore Blue48 Report Abuse GREAT!!
mmene Champion Author Houston Posts:1,808 Points:437,695 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 6:25:03 PM Ignore mmene Report Abuse Jeepmon - it is possible for individuals through manipulation to affect gas prices but ultimately the fundamentals will catch up as this guy found out. The only way to get away with it indefinitely is if one has a monopoly - like OPEC. They are the real culprits since they can mostly manipulate indefinitely. The only way to cut their power is a combination of finding non OPEC (preferrably domestic) sources as well as cutting consumption. As much as people are obsessed with speculators they are minor players in the overall story and can only cause temporary blips. Even that power is reducing since they really need people to be ignorant to manipulate them and the world is catching on to their methods.
letmathe Champion Author Chicago Posts:9,211 Points:2,129,445 Joined:May 2001	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:56:06 PM Ignore letmathe Report Abuse The firm lost money but blameless individuals trusting in the market system were the ones most damaged by this sort of behavior.
2granny Champion Author Michigan Posts:3,147 Points:310,480 Joined:Apr 2009	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:31:20 PM Ignore 2granny Report Abuse Is this further proof its not a supply vs demand situation?? Well said, Jeepmon.
pokey469 Champion Author Hamilton Posts:1,134 Points:261,315 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:27:24 PM Ignore pokey469 Report Abuse I agree with "hibsaw" let him rot with Bernie Madoff.
aalix Champion Author Orange County Posts:17,170 Points:2,997,955 Joined:Aug 2001	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:19:36 PM Ignore aalix Report Abuse Did they really lose money, just to soften the impact of rogue trading?
hibsaw Champion Author Mississippi Posts:2,284 Points:550,000 Joined:Feb 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:19:10 PM Ignore hibsaw Report Abuse He needs to join Bernie Madoff at Bernie's new retirement home.
Jeepmon All-Star Author San Jose Posts:629 Points:484,935 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:13:52 PM Ignore Jeepmon Report Abuse Is this further proof its not a supply vs demand situation??
EXTREMESNOW Champion Author Oregon Posts:3,620 Points:777,585 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:09:11 PM Ignore EXTREMESNOW Report Abuse They were having tea I guess!
Hydroid Champion Author British Columbia Posts:2,256 Points:445,935 Joined:Jul 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 12:08:51 PM Ignore Hydroid Report Abuse But they said the higher prices were due to supply and demand, and the resulting stock market trading, but this makes it appear that greed and market manipulation are a factor. What???? Hmmmmmmmm. Could it be that some of the postings on these website pages were correct after all. Hmmmmm
bobdec Champion Author Florida Posts:3,423 Points:669,325 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:59:46 AM Ignore bobdec Report Abuse Just another case of another crook trying to beat the system and needs to go to jail
granma3xnow Champion Author Indiana Posts:1,968 Points:404,725 Joined:Dec 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:59:39 AM Ignore granma3xnow Report Abuse Figures.
majorfall Champion Author New York Posts:9,937 Points:2,000,475 Joined:May 2004	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:53:50 AM Ignore majorfall Report Abuse just as many speculators who made money lost money as well. Last year I speculated during the runup by SELLING into the rally and lost...
ftsgt Champion Author Illinois Posts:7,522 Points:1,507,000 Joined:Dec 2004	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:50:34 AM Ignore ftsgt Report Abuse probably a lot of this that goes on
BornToulouse Veteran Author Georgia Posts:411 Points:71,315 Joined:Jul 2009	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:49:25 AM Ignore BornToulouse Report Abuse I am supportive of bringing back medieval forms of punishment. Such as: Burning at the Stake, the Iron Maiden, and The Rack. For the Wall Street miscreants who swindle from us all. Would losing one's hand for grand theft be a deterrent? I'd like to find out...
72_Monte Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:1,890 Points:847,930 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:49:13 AM Ignore 72_Monte Report Abuse The guy made a bet with someone else's money. Against policies. And F'd up bigtime.
goumterps2002 Champion Author Dayton Posts:2,141 Points:350,495 Joined:Aug 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:47:58 AM Ignore goumterps2002 Report Abuse Just drop it already. The guy made a bet and lost. No different than Vegas. However, you could raise the margin requirements to reduce the risk of manipulation.
spike1zz Champion Author Indiana Posts:2,741 Points:468,495 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:45:13 AM Ignore spike1zz Report Abuse Sounds like a gouger that needs to go to jail
sjl08203 Champion Author New Jersey Posts:3,244 Points:807,915 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:43:35 AM Ignore sjl08203 Report Abuse Hard to believe s[eculators could be cheating.....right
dl72 Champion Author Los Angeles Posts:1,548 Points:275,610 Joined:May 2009	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:43:06 AM Ignore dl72 Report Abuse People will do anything for money.
Cheepo Champion Author Tampa Posts:4,316 Points:2,029,665 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:42:35 AM Ignore Cheepo Report Abuse And greed is good!!!
Helms Champion Author Fort Worth Posts:3,525 Points:1,066,495 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:40:11 AM Ignore Helms Report Abuse NEITHER....simple GREEED!!!!
wegman Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:2,049 Points:954,060 Joined:Jun 2001	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:38:30 AM Ignore wegman Report Abuse Now is this malice or stupidity? Were they trying to protect their ill-advised position OR did they see the price going up because of the unauthorized trades and not realize that that was the reason?
albert2008 Champion Author Winnipeg Posts:1,543 Points:351,755 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:37:07 AM Ignore albert2008 Report Abuse iam sure greed is respondsible
adr47 Champion Author Saskatchewan Posts:1,522 Points:366,045 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:36:52 AM Ignore adr47 Report Abuse Bernie needs a cellmate this turkey should do.
BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:1,649 Points:453,265 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:36:51 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse "Remove oil from the stock market. " Oil futures are not traded on the stock market. They are traded on a commodities market. In this case, the trading was done in London.
lilneon Rookie Author San Antonio Posts:19 Points:63,485 Joined:Jun 2009	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:34:55 AM Ignore lilneon Report Abuse Good article... But "unauthorised"? I think you misplaced something!
BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:1,649 Points:453,265 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:34:42 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse For all the chest-thumping, there is no evidence that any laws were broken. Rather, Perkins made trades on oil futures that were not authorized by his employer. It will get him fired, but not into jail, unless additional information comes out indicating that his activities were illegal.
taxiken Champion Author Twin Cities Posts:3,896 Points:1,100,000 Joined:Feb 2003	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:34:19 AM Ignore taxiken Report Abuse Remove oil from the stock market.
twiper1 Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,035 Points:452,045 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:33:22 AM Ignore twiper1 Report Abuse anything to make the oil prices go up
BamaPack All-Star Author Atlanta Posts:773 Points:195,265 Joined:Sep 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:32:45 AM Ignore BamaPack Report Abuse What happened to Business Ethics 101?
HawaiianGuy Champion Author Idaho Posts:3,708 Points:1,937,125 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:32:40 AM Ignore HawaiianGuy Report Abuse All the greedy bast*rds have got their fingers in the pudding. Cumulatively, their take is staggering. Give 'em 150 years like old Bernie Madoff.
gasie1 Champion Author Maine Posts:4,554 Points:1,396,315 Joined:Nov 2005	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:32:06 AM Ignore gasie1 Report Abuse This seems to be a common practice of brokers.
grandmacbc All-Star Author Buffalo Posts:854 Points:373,570 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:31:57 AM Ignore grandmacbc Report Abuse It might be interesting to know who his contacts/friends are. Have any been in the American limelight. . . . . . .or Mideast?
cresovia Champion Author Chicago Posts:1,986 Points:555,490 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:28:11 AM Ignore cresovia Report Abuse I smell CRONYISM here! Get this CROOK!
Tnerbeel Champion Author Houston Posts:2,864 Points:599,610 Joined:Mar 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:26:57 AM Ignore Tnerbeel Report Abuse I'm sure glad I'm not this guy's boss.
rippinusoff Champion Author Lexington Posts:1,583 Points:337,340 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:23:19 AM Ignore rippinusoff Report Abuse greed greed greed...and there is nothing WE can do about it...
stugha Champion Author Massachusetts Posts:2,161 Points:265,865 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:22:15 AM Ignore stugha Report Abuse The answer is worlwide SPECULATOR, BIG OIL, GREED.
BurntOrange Champion Author Austin Posts:1,649 Points:453,265 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:20:30 AM Ignore BurntOrange Report Abuse Geez people. Steve Perkins lives in the United Kingdom. The trading was done on the London Exchange. US laws and US law enforcement are not applicable here.
mfeldstein Champion Author Ottawa Posts:2,853 Points:878,160 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:20:13 AM Ignore mfeldstein Report Abuse Another little Madoff pops up. Lots of jacks-in-the-boxes out there, I'm sure.
Bagtag All-Star Author Georgia Posts:828 Points:817,690 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:17:15 AM Ignore Bagtag Report Abuse Why ask such a foolish question when we all know the answer is GREED?
1fulltank Champion Author Buffalo Posts:2,108 Points:402,855 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:15:15 AM Ignore 1fulltank Report Abuse What's the penalty for this practice (legally speaking)?
NorthglennBill Champion Author Denver Posts:2,345 Points:446,155 Joined:Oct 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:15:02 AM Ignore NorthglennBill Report Abuse I don't get the importance of this story. All the traders are over bidding on the price of oil, this one just got caught. The others will soon follow as the price of crude drops.
fightbigoil71 Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:1,956 Points:423,505 Joined:Nov 2008	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:09:33 AM Ignore fightbigoil71 Report Abuse Enough of this story.
disldo Sophomore Author Chicago Posts:110 Points:39,155 Joined:Feb 2007	Message Posted: Jul 5, 2009 11:05:53 AM Ignore disldo Report Abuse Without the oil brokers, it would just be someone else screwing us on oil. Consider a bushel of wheat = a barrel of oil. Trade balance!